YEREVAN, SEPTEMBER 26, ARMENPRESS. “Armenpress” news agency talked with MEP representing Luxembourg Frank Engel about the recent developments, the role of the involved sides in the Nagorno Karabakh conflict settlement process.

-Mr. Engel, after April war, despite numerous meetings, discussions, it seems that significant progress is not being achieved in the negotiation process due to Azerbaijan’s unconstructive behavior. What is Your opinion, is there any visible progress?

-I have always thought and will continue to think that the Minsk Group is a joke. It doesn’t provide solution to the situation, rather more extends it. The leadership on both sides are confident the Minsk Group is the only existing format. It seems that war risk can be reduced due to these meetings, discussions, but in fact we saw in April that the Minsk process prevented nothing which will be visible also in the future. But the problem isn’t this. I am reading about the Azerbaijani intellectuals, and they are maybe people of good will, and if those people would have ruled the country, the situation could have been another 25-30 years ago, but it didn’t happen. Actually they all think they must take territories. I ask a question: what territories do you want to take? There is no option to give that territories to Azerbaijan if it doesn’t do it through war. If Azerbaijan will not understand that they have started the war, they were defeated and lost that territories, there cannot be any progress. And the NKR people presented their stance. I don’t need a referendum in order to know what they in reality want.  

-Recently there were numerous talks that Armenia has toughened its stance over this issue, and stressed that there is a need to revise the Madrid principles. What will You say in this regard?

-Look, the problem is the Azerbaijani society over the Karabakh issue. There is such a propaganda, there is such an atmosphere of hatred in Azerbaijan, that if we even have imagined that the NKR can be returned to Azerbaijan, we would witness another genocide. And in these circumstances, the role of the international community is especially obliging. Here the talk is not about the peaceful process when people meet, shake hands: the talk is about a country which wants to eliminate the other.

-Recently US Co-Chair James Warlick said he wants to see rapprochement between the people of the two states in the context of the conflict settlement. How would You comment on this?

-One thing is clear: you can never avoid from geography. Here is Armenia, there Azerbaijan. Warlick must know that the already existing situation can hint everything. For instance, what happened in Ramil Safarov’s case. He is an ordinary murderer who was condemned and was sentenced by law in the country where he committed the crime, then he was transferred to Azerbaijan to face his punishment there. And what happened, he was not only immediately released, but also he won the title of national hero for axing the Armenian. I think this is a phenomenon which can happen only in a sick society, and as long as it is still sick, I don’t see any prospect on the abovementioned issue.

-Mr. Engel, there were numerous talks on including the NKR in the negotiation process. Don’t You think it is really important?

-Of course, it is important. Eventually, their villages are now targeted. I think from this perspective Nagorno Karabakh must also sit around the negotiation table. Karabakh is a fact, and it is positive, and unless that fact is not recognized, nothing can be solved.

-Recently it seems Turkey has started to speak about its wish to be involved in the Karabakh negotiation process. What will You say on this?

-Turkey’s stance to support Azerbaijan up to the end is very clear. We also know that Azerbaijan will not take any step without consulting with Turkey. Turkey is a country with 8 million people and it wants to have its place in the world. But this, of course, will not happen tomorrow, nevertheless, I have great hopes one day Turkey will come to a conclusion that it can have another influence on Azerbaijan, rather than just saying that we are with you until the end. Turkey must understand that it has many problems with neighbors, and it would be more useful to have fewer problems with fewer neighbors.

-Mr. Engel, can we ever have a guarantee that Azerbaijan will not unleash another attack one day?

-Definitely no. I am confident if tomorrow miracle will happen and Aliyev will decide that he wants to negotiate and accept another option, he will lose power. Why? Since the entire Azerbaijani political field, the army would say but this is not for which we were preparing, we were going to take the lands. It is not important what steps will be taken, whether Karabakh will sit around the negotiation table or not, one thing is clear: a time will come when they will say in Azerbaijan we want all.

Interview by Syuzi Muradyan